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I'll just put a warning out right now that it's late and I might be philosophizing past my bed time, but something's on my mind and I'm open to any and all thoughts.
How many times has someone told you they have a "great idea for a movie" and then (after making you promise you won't steal the idea and making sure that no one else is within earshot) they tell you something like "Club Bouncers - think about it - these dudes have all the ins - they're like the demigods of nightlife." And you think "Demigods of nightlife" - well that is interesting..... but where is the story?
Lejos Egri in "The art of Dramatic Writing" would love this - he is definitely of the mind that all action comes from character. But what do you tell someone about this?
I've been thinking about this today because I had one such pitch given to me recently and I think maybe the answer is that if you are basing your movie on a character (or several characters) you have to build them so deeply and to such a point that they finally want something compelling and the obstacle is clear. Or you need to build several characters enough to the point that there is a moment of atomic instability between them and there is no choice but a breakdown.
So in the first case you'd say "the bouncer wants to be recognized for his poetry" (trying to think of something unexpected here) "And he wants to be recognized a philisophical type, which, sadly, he is not." "But what he does know is.... etc." Maybe he's got a photographic memory etc.
The second case would be something like "There is Harold and Bud - two bouncers at the Visavie club in Beverly Hills." And then build these two up until the point that something between them conflicts - they fall for the same girl, they both want a promotion, whatever...
But these points is where "a great movie idea" is born. No matter what Mr. Egri says... the movie itself is in the latter part - not in the character.
Now, as you can tell, I have no great movie idea about bouncers, but when someone does feel like there is "a great movie idea" about something - I think maybe what is happening is that they really do have a great movie idea - but what needs to happen is that instinct needs to be nurtured and the movie needs to be brought out of them.
How many times has someone told you they have a "great idea for a movie" and then (after making you promise you won't steal the idea and making sure that no one else is within earshot) they tell you something like "Club Bouncers - think about it - these dudes have all the ins - they're like the demigods of nightlife." And you think "Demigods of nightlife" - well that is interesting..... but where is the story?
Lejos Egri in "The art of Dramatic Writing" would love this - he is definitely of the mind that all action comes from character. But what do you tell someone about this?
I've been thinking about this today because I had one such pitch given to me recently and I think maybe the answer is that if you are basing your movie on a character (or several characters) you have to build them so deeply and to such a point that they finally want something compelling and the obstacle is clear. Or you need to build several characters enough to the point that there is a moment of atomic instability between them and there is no choice but a breakdown.
So in the first case you'd say "the bouncer wants to be recognized for his poetry" (trying to think of something unexpected here) "And he wants to be recognized a philisophical type, which, sadly, he is not." "But what he does know is.... etc." Maybe he's got a photographic memory etc.
The second case would be something like "There is Harold and Bud - two bouncers at the Visavie club in Beverly Hills." And then build these two up until the point that something between them conflicts - they fall for the same girl, they both want a promotion, whatever...
But these points is where "a great movie idea" is born. No matter what Mr. Egri says... the movie itself is in the latter part - not in the character.
Now, as you can tell, I have no great movie idea about bouncers, but when someone does feel like there is "a great movie idea" about something - I think maybe what is happening is that they really do have a great movie idea - but what needs to happen is that instinct needs to be nurtured and the movie needs to be brought out of them.
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Sat, February 26, 2005 - 3:52 AMI have to admit, I'm also up well past my bedtime, but "Demigods of nightlife" does sound intriguing. What if one of them *actually* is a demigod (think Thor)?
But, your point is that there are plenty of interesting *possible* stories that could be movies. Admittedly, I'm somewhat new to the whole filmmaking thing, but I do find the act of creating a film fascinating.
I'm sure when I started this reply, I had a point to make, but Comfortably Numb just came on iTunes and that distracted me from where ever I was going with it.
Damnit, I hate it when that happens.
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 9:44 AM'if you are basing your movie on a character (or several characters) you have to build them so deeply and to such a point that they finally want something compelling and the obstacle is clear.'
when is a movie not based on a character or group of characters (i ask in all sincerity)?
or do you mean more in the construction sense, like building a movie up from the pieces of a few good characters, as opposed to first having the framework of a kickass plot that is subsequently filled in with characters? -
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 5:14 PMWell koyaaniquatsi has no characters per se - but it's not a documentary and I would argue that it does have a story - just not a common one... But getting back to more hollywood style pictures... I think it's pretty clear when a movie is based on a character or a plot.
Elf was based on a character, Resident Evil is based on a plot.
I think most films are actually based on the "what if" concept... which is fine. Good films will infuse characters into that so organically that you're not sure what came first. I find that you can put fully realized characters into "what if scenarios" and get some good results.
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Sun, May 22, 2005 - 11:35 AMNot that I'm a known scribt writter, but I have a couple of beginning thoughts to convey. First, I decided to write a screen play about a eighteen months ago. I had met a woman that belonged toa script writing group and she invited me to the group. I was very enthusiastic after the first meeting...I knew my story was as ggod or much better that what I'd heard thus far. I hurried home and knocked out 10-12 pages for the next week. I was well recieved. My mistake, the point here, I listened to way to many people and their opinions. My story was changed to please the seasoned veterans. My mistake. I believ, if I understand your point, that the characters carry the story, there is no story without them. I write stream of conciousness and many time the story takes a turn that completely surprises me. I like this. In my 18 months I've studied the craft and have settled on Robert McKee and the STORY as the best tool for me. However, back to your comments, I don't belive you can fabricate a story of an unknown and have a compelling story. The story must come from the characters and their stories, not something canned, fabricated. What I also trying to suggest here is that all of us that write, ought to write the story with the characters and finish it, then we can see what actually happen, if there is a potencial for the screen...and then rewrite and cut. What say you/ Am I on the same line of thinking as you? -
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Sun, May 22, 2005 - 8:11 PMYour description of your technique doesn't match the Robert McKee thinking and I find that interesting. Robert McKee would more likely have you find your ending (as many people suggest).
I think there is a perfect balance of plan and surprise when writing. I've done both methods and I will definitely say that knowing where I'm going to end up is very advantageous - but if I keep the path there somewhat loose - I find even in my first draft the pacing and structure feels much more organic.
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Re: the "great movie idea"
Mon, May 23, 2005 - 8:29 AMAgreed, I neglected to mention there is an ending. I subscribe to a beginning, middle and end (chuckle). I was in a big hurry when I posted last. I'm happy your here as a resourse to us. I attended AFF last Nov. in Santa Monica in my education quest. That was very enlightening, my partner and I got a opportunity to make a pitch and we were not ready..that was in itself worth the trip. We also attened the HD conferance. That's a bit over my head but did learn considerable. This past year and a half I've started a Production company, the nuts and bolts part, Sub-s, and attempted to raise some seed money. We have a couple scripts that are worthy of making into a picture. I'm looking forward to reading more on this tribe.
regards
Jerry
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